This is a bit of a soap box for me because it’s something I feel very strongly about.
How do you feel about the legal requirement for a daily act of worship of a broadly Christian nature in all state schools (except for faith schools of other faiths and schools in areas where a high % of the dcs are of a non-Christian faith, which still have to have daily worship but to a different God)? It makes me quite angry that the government harps on about parental choice with schools yet does not provide a choice for non-religious families short of bringing attention to their dcs and causing them to miss out of assemblies by withdrawing them. I feel like it undermines the legitimacy of deciding not to bring up a dc in a religious way, as the right to other religions is respected, just not the right to no religion. I really think that in this day and age a more appropriate approach would be to encourage children to think about morality and social responsibility in a secular (humanist?) way and leave religion to be taught about with equal emphasis for all religions in specific religion classes.
This bothers me so much that it was a factor (although I admit not a big one) in deciding to go for a private school for dd. We’re considering home ed-ing ds as he wouldn’t suit the school dd will go to.
I’d like to encourage anyone who feels the same way as me to sign up to one of these government petitions when the elections are over (they’re closed until then): http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/secularschools/ or http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/School-RE/ Neither of these petitions is exactly what I was saying but it’s not possible to start a new one until after the election.
i feel that pretty much any religious stance is often seen as worthy of respect, above discussion, etc, but an athetist or agnostic position is not.
I am raising my kids as atheists/humanists, I suppose, with a sense of wonder but from a scientific starting point. The more I find out about this amazing universe of ours, the more awed I am. For us, atheism is a really positive choice, a decision to accept no intellectual authority except our own.
I don’t think it would actually make me keep my kids out of school-it is more that I am deeply unimpressed with the science teaching in schools, all magic tricks and useless facts from what I can see, that made us decide to HE. My kids actually go to church on occasion with grandparents, friends, etc, (plus we take them if there is likely to be lots of singing), they learn religious (and secular) songs, we read to them from the Bible occasionally and we don’t pull any punches with it-we just read it straight. We read books in which the underlying tone is very religious, eg little house on the prairie. None of this has made them in the slightest bit religious, but it has made for some interesting debates.
I also agree that religion should be something that is taught at home if it is going to be taught at all. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have values, ethics and morals in schools - none of those need to imply a particular religious standpoint, and it is interesting to debate how to decide on these. But then, philosophy isn’t often on the curriculum either. For us, it was one of many points which made us decide to HE There are many values which we cherish and encourage as a family which seem to have no place in schools - kindness, honour, for example - while empty lip service is paid to a nominally state religion which many in the school don’t subscribe to.
I thought this had been changed, I thought there wasn’t any religion in state schools assemblies etc anymore.. just as I thought there was some code that religious symbols weren’t to be worn either - I remember a case of a young lady taking her school to court becuase they told her seh couldn’t wear the chasity ring and she refused to take it off.
Personally, I couldn’t really care less, but then I am home eding - but even if I did send Rye to school (or he wanted to go), I still wouldn’t care. Personally, I think it is more insulting to Christians who do practise the faith to have this nominal nod to the faith, which is so diluted as to be meaningless. I would discuss the element with Rye and then tell him it was his choice how he dealt with it; join in, stand quiet or be asked to be excused.
I do think the government has it backwards tho - it should’t be a religious element they rquire - but an element of spirituality… and encouraging the students to express that in a manner fitting with theri own religions. I would very much like to see an element of spirituality brought into schools.
I say this with the utmost respect to the Christian faith, that is how we were taught back then, in school as well. Personally, I’ve never encouraged religion or atheism, its still something we are expoloring.
We don’t hold fast to any religious theories either - whether theist or atheist.
When mine were at school they celebrated a variety of religions, the passing of the seasons, the harvest etc etc. Then again, it was a very multicultural inner city school so maybe that’s why.
Personally, I think it is more insulting to Christians who do practise the faith to have this nominal nod to the faith, which is so diluted as to be meaningless.
Amen to that! My faith bears no resemblance to any nominal nodding, it is a vibrant, alive, joyful part of me and is something I share with (not “teach”) my kids. I don’t home ed for religious reasons particularly, but I do appreciate the opportunity it gives me to inspire them, accompanying them on their journey and allowing all questions to be asked. I am very out of touch with how religion is dealt with in schools but I would like to see more, not less, diversity celebrated and discussed in schools. I can see how humanists might feel left out if school assemblies draw on religious festivals (from all faiths) as they hop through the year from Diwali to Ramadan to Easter - teachers probably feel at a loss to know how to incorporate atheist beliefs into a teaching slot/assembly in the same way.
Actually I thought most of this sort of thing had disappeared in schools, our socialist government are very secular in many, many ways, we’re not too many years away from the situation in France (which I think is awful - eradicating public displays of faith is NOT the same as toleration!).
No, Our government definitely isn’t socialist (sadly) You may remember the abandonment of clause 4 many years ago!!
I am an atheist, brought up an atheist and from a very long line of atheists but funnily enough this doesn’t bother me at all - with the proviso that other beliefs are given respect within a school context and children are encouraged to think for themselves. The C of E is the established church, and whatever my personal religious/spiritual views it has had a huge cultural influence on this country (difficult to think of anything that has had more influence really) - its history explains so much about our politics, our architecture, our music etc etc. As long as we remain a democracy and people are encouraged to think freely then I think us atheists can have enough confidence in our beliefs not to be threatened by a bit of establishment religion. I have always enjoyed the prayers and hymns and a good sermon can be thought provoking, regardless of whether you believe in god so I have no problem in introducing children to the church in this way. My belief in the importance of state education is much stronger so it would make me send my kids to a private school.
Maybe not in an economic sense but I was referring more to their attitude to religion…
Wikipedia explains “Linguistically, the contemporary connotation of the words socialism and communism accorded with the adherents’ and opponents’ cultural attitude towards religion. In Christian Europe, of the two, communism was believed the atheist way of life. In Protestant England, the word communism was too culturally and aurally close to the Roman Catholic communion rite, hence English atheists denoted themselves socialists”
My use of the term was slightly derogatory, based on my own political views, I apologise for that.
I dont’ mind you being derogatory at all - your entitled to your opinion! But I guess I just think its important to be accurate. This is a bit of digression, but….... Its certainly true that communism has usually been equated with atheism not least becuase politically it was important to quash opposition and the church was powerfu. But there are exceptions, especially in South America where liberation theology brought Communism and Catholicism together. In this country Christian socialism (especially methodism) has been really important in the left wing movement throughout its history. And though there aren’t a lot of real socialists in this government there are a lot of Christian social democrats -Blair and Brown are both practising Christians and there are lots of others.
You see, even though I’m an atheist I find religion fascinating!
I dont’ mind you being derogatory at all - your entitled to your opinion! But I guess I just think its important to be accurate. This is a bit of digression, but….... Its certainly true that communism has usually been equated with atheism not least becuase politically it was important to quash opposition and the church was powerfu. But there are exceptions, especially in South America where liberation theology brought Communism and Catholicism together. In this country Christian socialism (especially methodism) has been really important in the left wing movement throughout its history. And though there aren’t a lot of real socialists in this government there are a lot of Christian social democrats -Blair and Brown are both practising Christians and there are lots of others.
You see, even though I’m an atheist I find religion fascinating!
