[quote author=willowwarrior link=topic=1556.msg17676#msg17676 date=1212483157]
As far as I can see I am stating a fact when I say that killing an unborn baby is murder.
Isnt murder the ending of a life by someone else?
And no one has given me a satisfactory answer to why it is a "termination" before they are born, and why it would be murder at the same weeks gestation, if they had been born prematurely.
Murder is a legal definition and is defined by premeditation, people being in full charge of their faculties etc - I'm not a lawyer and don't know the precise definition. Depending on circumstances and the mental condition of the killer, killing another human being can be defined as manslaughter rather than murder. A termination or abortion is again a technical term that defines the killling of an embryo or fetus rather than a baby. The law has to define things and obviously we pick up on the language. The point at which a fetus becomes a baby depends on the individual fetus/baby in question doesn't it - babies are born at different weeks gestation? I don't find this difficult The law has to work on the basis of what is most likely. A baby born at 24 weeks is extremely unlikely to survive and will only survive thanks to a lot of technical intervention - and as recent research has shown there has been no improvement in life chances at 24 weeks despite improved care and technical expertise.