Do your little one's have chocolate to eat? How old were they when they first had chocolate?
Neither Mia or Tarka has ever had a bar or even a square of chocolate to themselves, but they occasionally have a tiny nibble of a square if thet catch me eating it ::). I have to admit to being an absolute chocoholic, and although being vegan means that there aren't many kinds we can eat, I do eat some G & b's most days
I keep swinigng between thinking I'm being too controlling with M and T and then thinking that 20 months (Tarka) is way too young to be eating chocolate anyway… I also have to live with my own hypocrisy lol!
oopps, Just realised that Tarka is actually 21 months old ;D Still a bit too young to be eating choc though!
I also meant to ask what other healthier snacky type treats your lo's have?? M and T like panda licorice, frutus bars, organix carrot cake bars and that sort of thing, but I still worry about the fact that are basically all sugary, evenm if it's not added sugar.
(I do have to admit that I am eating orange chocolate whilst typing this ::) ;D ::) ;D )
Neither of mine had chocolate under the age of 2, though DS started having it younger than DD due to him being younger and seeing what she had! But I try not to make these kinds of things 'treats', they are merely pudding items which they sometimes get and sometimes don't as a sweet course after a meal. As puddings they might get a biscuit (homemade mainly or shop-bought organic), cake (ditto), raisins, yoghurt-covered fruit, fruit snack bar, flapjack (homemade usually), custard (dairy or soya), yoghurt etc. I don;t usually buy them chocolate - my Grandad buys them small bags of (fairtrade) chocolate christmassy shapes at Christmas and eastery shapes at Easter which last them a good month usually as I dole them out one small shape each as pudding after tea.
I generally don;t think it's a good idea to ban these things completely - as you say, I'm a chocoholic and I never had chocolate as a child and I went mad on chocolate and sweets as a teenager as soon as I had money and freedom to do so. So, I try to incorporate small amounts of the least damaging and most ethically sourced chocolate things into normal meals so it doesn't get that novelty factor. I would never get them ordinary high street chocolate bars though. The most mainstream I would go would be Green & Blacks or Divine, and I'd explain to them why too, so they understand.
As for sugar, I'm not mad keen either, but on the other hand, moderation in all things - even things like dried fruit can be bad for teeth, so I just go for moderation and as much homemade stuff as I can so I can control the sugar content.
My eldest didn't have any chocolate til she was about 2 or 3, but all subsequent children have had it much much earlier - probably from under 1. They probably have a chocolatey treat about 3 times a week. I think 'sweets' are much worse than chocolate, aren't they?
I rarely had any kind of sweet thing at all as a child, we didn't have puddings, I got some pocket money sometimes but it went on the beano ;D. however, as an adult I am now a ferocious and uncontrollable chocaholic ??? Maybe there is a link there….
DD 1st had chocolate at about 2. She's not really got a sweet tooth, and at a 4th birthday party today (which had a chocolate fountain for kids to dip bannanas,strawberries and apples in) asked 'an I have a strawberry with no chocolate, its all sticky and not very nice…?'
She's definately not mine, as I was 'helping' (with birthday girls mum and another) clean up the fountain by eating what was left with a spoon!
::)
[quote author=Queenie link=topic=1584.msg16745#msg16745 date=1211742572]
I can't honestly remember but certainly not before 18 months/2 years old. Even now if I let the children have something - for instance if someone buys them a packet of chocolate buttons - I let them see me split the packet open, count them 5 or 6 out each and put the rest away for another day (or eat them myself when they're not around )
I copied Starchilds idea and started up a "Friday box" where the treats are kept and on Friday, after lunch, they are allowed to pick whatever they want out of it for their treat. My main problem was/is other people buying and giving them what I consider to be total rubbish "as a treat". But since we had the Friday Box I just say "lovely, lets put it in your friday box, thank you" and they don't ask for it again. And if I consider it to be unsuitable then it goes to a new home. They know though that they're not allowed sweets though, especially lollipops.
I am always amazed when i pick up DS from his weekly playschool session how many children are clutching big bags of sweets (and I do mean big, even by my greedy standards!) or doughnuts that their mums have bought them to eat on the way home (playschool finishes at 12.30) or if its a birthday mums send in big bags of lollipops (horrible mummy here sends in home made gingerbread men or little boxes of raisins).
I am really lucky as DD and DS don't pester or nag for sweets or treats, and should they ever give me the old "i'm hungry" routine when we're out and chocolate has been spotted, I quickly remedy the situation with an apple from my bag. Funnily enough their appetite seems to have disappeared just at the mere appearance of said fruit :D
I like the idea of a Friday box, and I too am amazed at how often sweets are dolled out to children. However, I don't really limit the amount of sweets they have and because of that they do not pester for them. They have a stash of sweets that seem to last a lifetime, until friends come over and cannot control how many sweets they eat when they have free reign! For example, today DS2 and DS3 wanted some more of their Easter chocolate, which they had and it has gone away for the next time.
My MIL likes to treat them to sweets, but when I can I hide them away for another day (or even to put in party bags for other children, or send them to school to give to the other children when it is their birthday, as they really do mount up!)
DS3 now refers to Holland and Barratt as the raisin rebel shop, as he is rather partial to them (as am I!) ::) DS3 has the sweetest tooth out of the lot of them, so I do have to be careful with him, but the others are pretty good at regulating what they eat, and they are also more aware of healthy eating, so make informed choices about food.
[quote author=Gina link=topic=1584.msg16732#msg16732 date=1211738481]
Do your little one's have chocolate to eat?
Yep - we have a Wednesday box (we have that day becuase dd is out with my mother all day and fed crap, so I figured we'd get it all done with in one day). dd's allowed to have two treats from the box which consists of chocolate and crisps - sometimes she'll eat two packets of crisps rather than chocolate.
I have homemade cakes and biscuits on the go during the week for puddings and snacks too, but more often than not if there is the choice of chocolate cake or lemon cake, dd will go for lemon
How old were they when they first had chocolate?
3 1/2
My struggle is with sweets. Dd is DESPERATE for sweets. I get her organic ones from Waitrose occasionally and the ones from Lidls that seem ok, but she just wants more, more, more.
She told me this afternoon when she dies and is reincarnated she's going to come back as a boy who is allowed to eat as many sweets as he wants ???
it really worries me - she keeps asking at what age is she allowed to do as she likes. I said 16-18 and she reckons she is going to walk to the shop and spend all her money on sweets. She tells me she would rather be ill than go without them…..............
My DD is just two and has just started having a little organic white or milk chocolate…but I do as someone above said and incorporate it into meals so it doesn't get that "special treat" status. She has maybe a couple of squares a couple of times a week after meals but we NEVER say "eat up your meal first" or anyhting like that. If she has not eaten her tea we just would assume she is full and not offer a pudd anyway She loves breadsticks and rice cakes and adores fruit smoothies and all fruit too as snacks.
She also likes tiny peanut butter sandwiches and grated cheese in a little pot to hold. We sometimes get the Ella's kitchen smoothies - expensive but really convenient - but I don't like the plastic waste so we tend to make our own.
I hate sweets - things like boiled sweets - and I am dreading her being old enough to ask for them. She has two grown up brothers so no siblings her age so it should be pretty easy to keep that type of sweet away from her…...however I am not looking forward to MIL visiting ::)
I know people who are totally relaxed about the sugar issue. Their opinions are that there child will self regulate. That given free access to any and all foods the parents can provide, the child may indulge in lots of sugary things one day abut then not bother again for days. Without the parent distinguishing between 'bad' and 'good' foods that the child will be free to follow their 'instincts. It has been interesting for me to see and hear about this. The theory being that over a period of a week or so the child eats from all of the food groups and has a balanced diet without the parent coercing the child to eat 'healthful' foods over the 'bad' ones. It takes an awful lot of trust to do this I think. I don't think I can totally. But this is based around my own diet and cravings and knowledge about how I would behave given this opportunity. For me sugar is SOOOO addictive. I have a wicked sweet tooth. And I do best without lots of sweet things around to tempt me. My friends who do this sort of autonomous food thing with their kids report that their children often just walk on by the sweet isle in the shop or refuse junk if they don't feel like it. They know it is never forbidden.
There opinion was that a child not brought up with this is bound to binge at first but then even out once it becomes normal.
If my son tells me hey mummy I have some money and I want to buy a Millky Way, I smile and say that's nice. It is his money after all and I sure as heck would be pissed off if someone was telling me what I could and could not spend money on. But this does not mean I buy loads of junk to have a round should their desire dictate they want to eat junk. I just can't do it! Makes me feel shit to see them chowing down on some rubbish. But as best I can I try to be happy that they get enjoyment out of their 'treat' without being all preachy. I mean if some one was rabbiting on and guiliting me about the piece of chocolate cake I was so looking forward too I'd be ever so rude with them and probably angry too (maybe it would make me secretive about it next time to avoid the discussion/criticism?). But for a child I think they'd have all sorts of weird feelings going on that they could not articulate - guilt, anger, shame even, but pleasure too. Food is a hard enough struggle I think without us tripping them up over their desires.
To answer the chocolate question - I make my own chocolate (I put the recipe in at the end of the butter/margarine throed if anyone is interested) which I spoon into little sweet papers to set and my boys LOVE them. But I also buy Green & Blacks weekly too.
My oldest son is colour blind and did not notice the sweet isle in the supermarket for the longest time. He was over 3 before he had any such 'sweet' thing, even chocolate really. My next child - can't remember, but much earlier due to older sibling eating things.
We have baked goodies on hand during the week at home.
I remember not being allowed sweets when I was little and I would dream and fantasise about them for ages, what they tasted like etc etc. I would feel such guilty pleasure when I did get something. It was a horrible feeling really and made me angry later at my mum for guilting me so much. One time I remember not being allowed bubble gum and being so desperate for it. I finally had a little coloured ball and loved it SO much. When I came home I stuck it in my belly button for safe keeping (no way was I going to throw it away!) and of course it became stuck. I lay in bed crying about it that night until my mum came up. Fortunately she saw the funny side and laughed about it with me (I was maybe 7 yrs old) and helped me get it out. How crazy is that! My son was really interested in chewing gum and bubble gum last year (when he was 6) and I siad I was really just worried about two things - one that he would have this ball of sugar in his mouth just sitting there going around and two that perhaps he might swallow it and that would really not be good etc etc. In the end we talked and I bought him some Hubba Bubba (?) and we chewed it together and I taught him how to blow bubbles (it was good actually - don't think I have had the stuff in years and years - still feel guilty about it to be honest!). He went through about two packs in half an hour and then that was it. He has had some sugar free stuff his dad keeps in the car occasionally but he is not bothered about it one way or another now.
I think it is a very hard thing not to let our own food choices and theories about food get caught up in our children's exploration of food. It is harder still to stand back and let them make the choices. The best we can do IMO is give them information and say this is what I know right now, at this time about this particular food, other people may have different ideas. You need to decide yourself. It feels so good to hand them the responsibility, the deciding for themselves. Also how amazing when you see how responsible they actually are. And they really can be when they see that we trust them and that it is ok.
mamauk - thank you for your wonderful post - I could sense still, a lot of confusion in your words and I really honour you for such an honest, open sharing.
You highlighted a lot of my 'issues' too but I admire very much the way you are dealing with this with your own children…...............
You've given me lots to think about - thank you so much (((HUGS))))
Thanks for all your really interesting and honest replies
I suppose we are lucky, in that being vegan means M and T know that most of the crisps/chocolate/ sweets etc they see are offl limits and never mention them or even seem to notice them! M occasinally asks 'is thatmade from animals' and if we say yes, she is fine with not having it, it doesn't even seem to worry her if her cousins eat dairy chocolate infront of her.
I definitely don't want to turn sweet stuff into a big issue, but I don't want them to eat chocolate as often as I do atm either!
It's good to know that other second children tasted sweet stuff earlier than the first! Mia was 3 before she even tasted chocolate but Tarka has had his first taste recently at 21 months, simply because he has seen me eating it :-[ !
I think DD1 maybe tasted about 18 months or 2 and wasn't very bothered about it. I have to say chocolate and coffee are the things that get me through the day when breastfeeding all night and all day long I need the sugar and caffeine pick me up. I used to (actually still) feel guilty about this. Not least because now DD1 is 3.5 and really "sees" me eating a lot of chocolate and cake and at least twice if not 4 times a week she asks to go to the shop. I don't quite know how to help her down the sweetie eisle. Do you think it is all overwhelming having this much choice and it feels such a introduction to the modern consumerist culture? She hasn't tried much - milky way, white chocolate buttons, plain brown chocolate, lollies (which I try and discourage using the dentist argument). She will often ask for other things like tooty fruities/ sticky sweets which I tell her will stick to her teeth, but I do succumb when she asks for jelly babies (I get to eat all the black and red ones which she doesn't like). I liked your post too mamauk, much more thought through than mine. Have to say wish that the reason I say Yes, was because I trust her to work it all out herself, but mostly it is because I haven't got the energy for a fight and fancy a bit of chocolate myself. OOOOOhhhh I'm a terrible mother.
[quote author=Gina link=topic=1584.msg16781#msg16781 date=1211790603]
I suppose we are lucky, in that being vegan means M and T know that most of the crisps/chocolate/ sweets etc they see are offl limits and never mention them or even seem to notice them! M occasinally asks 'is thatmade from animals' and if we say yes, she is fine with not having it, it doesn't even seem to worry her if her cousins eat dairy chocolate infront of her.
This worked for me for ages, we are veggie and they know about gelatine and didnt ask for sweets because they knew they weren't veggie, and then as they got older this stopped working! Ellis is 7 now and i think probably since he was about 5 or a bit older he got desperate for sweets (actually maybe a lot more to do with school) after a lot of soul searching i decided to let them choose which sweets they had on a friday as i dont want to be a control freak all the time - (although i suspect i always will be!) so i told them all the penny sweets had gelatine in and they still chose them quite a few times and eventually started to realise they didnt really like them that much as the were so chewy they never break down! now they generally dont have them but occasionally they ask and sometimes i'll say 'you know these have gelatine in?' and they say yes & i occasionally allow them - i'm hoping by doing this it is something they will grow out of. Although i have to say i couldnt do the same if they wanted some meat product instead! so i guess its just the kind of 'hidden' gelatine iykwim?
Anyway with recent teeth related problems we are having massive crackdown in our house and on friday i bought them each crisps b4 i collected them from school instead of giving them a choc/sweets choice and they were both still pleased with them but i do still have problem with giving 'junk' this kind of special 'treat' status although once you've kind of accidentally started it then its hard to stop. Its a shame you cant do some kind of trial run b4 you have children so you could get all this stuff right! ;D
I'm sure that it is harder for parents whose children go to school :-\ Especially as so many children are allowed unlimited access to sweets and junk food. I used to be sooo jealous of friends who drank brightly coloured fizzy pop and had unlimited packets of crisps, and white bread sandwhiches!
We're lucky in that most of the Home Ed families we regularly meet up with here eat a fairly wholefood type diet and M and T never really see other children eating sweets. I don't think there are any vegan sweets (not in ordinary shops anyway) so hopefully they will remain almost invisible to M and T!
[quote author=mamauk link=topic=1584.msg16766#msg16766 date=1211748949]
I know people who are totally relaxed about the sugar issue. Their opinions are that there child will self regulate. That given free access to any and all foods the parents can provide, the child may indulge in lots of sugary things one day abut then not bother again for days. Without the parent distinguishing between 'bad' and 'good' foods that the child will be free to follow their 'instincts. It has been interesting for me to see and hear about this. The theory being that over a period of a week or so the child eats from all of the food groups and has a balanced diet without the parent coercing the child to eat 'healthful' foods over the 'bad' ones. It takes an awful lot of trust to do this I think. I don't think I can totally. But this is based around my own diet and cravings and knowledge about how I would behave given this opportunity. For me sugar is SOOOO addictive. I have a wicked sweet tooth. And I do best without lots of sweet things around to tempt me. My friends who do this sort of autonomous food thing with their kids report that their children often just walk on by the sweet isle in the shop or refuse junk if they don't feel like it. They know it is never forbidden.
I've read a bit about this too and understand why it ames sense, but when your children are really little, Mia is nearly 4 and Tarka is nearly 2, I do feel that i have to almost protect them from all the awful junk that is out there. I know that junk food and fast food give your body a quick high and are really addicitve, so I don't want them exposed to it all for now, not while their bodies are so little and pure!
I also feel that it would be strange to feed them stuff I wouldn't dream of eating myself. We all eat the same meals and snacks (ok, so I sneakily eat chocolate and do feel guilty about this) and for now the best treat in the world, is fresh fruit and I don't want to spoil that.
I think the way you deal with your son wanting buy a Milky Way is really positive, Allowing him to be autonomous and make his own decisions. You have inspired me to be a bit less controlling, as Mia is at the stage of wanting to make her own decisions about 'everything' and sometimes I do things like not let her buy a plastic toy in a charity shop because I'm seeing not having plastic as more important than respecting her choice and allowing her to make her own decisions. She reacts really passionately (read tantrum here lol) to having her autonomy interfered with and your post really has reminded me to think about what is important in the long term, before reacting to her choices etc, thanks
)
She loves breadsticks and rice cakes and adores fruit smoothies and all fruit too as snacks. 
