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Bin Laden is Dead
Posted: 03 May 2011 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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When I first heard the news yesterday, I could not believe it at all. There is no proof of whatsoever, just a photo and a DNA sample and yes why getting rid of his body so quickly, so no one can actually see him…The whole thing when you think about it sounds like a total scam…but nothing like a good news to relaunch a US economy who is struggling and need a boost. Obama was also struggling to maintain its popularity and with the election coming soon! Call me a cynical but I don’t buy it!
And yes Osama Ben Laden was a CIA agent for the US for a few years as well.

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Posted: 03 May 2011 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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Obama, yes it doesn’t do his credit rating any harm does it with the celebrating masses in the states

The law, is it legal to just go into another country without their knowledge and kill a man? However awful his actions may be. Nazi war criminals are arrested and brought to trial not just hunted down and shot.

Gadafi, if you were him wouldn’t you have got your grandchildren somewhere safer than a bunker in tripoli? Funny how he managed to escape but not them.

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Posted: 03 May 2011 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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I’m not at all surprised by the quick burial at sea. I suspect that plan had been in place for a long time before Bin Laden was ever found. If the US had hung on to the body, there would have been attempts to recapture it and use it as a rallying point - it’s been done hundreds of times before in history. This way can solve that problem while respecting the muslim requirement for a quick burial. Agreed, burial at sea might not be customary, but it does solve the problem of a “martyr’s grave”.

I’m certainly not rejoicing over this - I think the Martin Luther King Jr quote going around Facebook right now sums it up perfectly - but I don’t think there’s a big conspiracy here - just a well thought out plan of action for dealing with the problem of a much-sought-after body.

Here’s that quote, if anyone’s interested: “I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.

Angie

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Posted: 03 May 2011 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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I think Martin Luther king’s quote sums it up nicely!

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Posted: 03 May 2011 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Yep, rely on MLK to come up with something totally appropriate for every situation!

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Posted: 03 May 2011 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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tricky ruby - toatlly agree, I already thought he had been dead since 2007 from the Arabic news.  It was kinda of gross how Obama was bouncing with joy practically when he announced this fakey news.

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Posted: 03 May 2011 08:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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I appreciate that this kind of event stirs conspiracy theorists into a tizz but I don’t buy it for one moment. Bin Laden had been recently increasing his posts of recordings to Al Jazeera, who had apparently been playing more of his recordings, and he was seemingly traced through his more-active-than-usual courier. It wasn’t pending Primaries that caused this – it’s was bin Laden’s arrogance. I don’t think there’s a single American who’s going to be sitting at home thinking “Well, the economy’s in a shocking state, I’ve got no job, my home is about to be repossessed, tornados have ripped through my town, but I’ll vote for Obama because he killed Bin Laden.” Once again the conspiracy doesn’t make sense, not only for this human reason but because if bin Laden is actually still alive then he would probably let the world know, wouldn’t he? He’s probably post a video saying “It’s May 3rd, here’s something else that happened in the world to prove the date and it’s not true – I’m still alive.” And if he had died already, how did he send messages in the last few years with up to date news?

I’d like to ask “What if there’s no conspiracy? What if the American government/military disposed of his body as quickly as possible because (a) parading his dead body in the streets would have sparked international Muslim outrage, (b) because delaying any kind of burial would have sparked international Muslim outrage “See, these Americans are at war with Islam!”), (c) because they didn’t want a martyr’s grave, (d) because keeping him alive to stand trial, which I would have preferred, would probably have led to numerous kidnappings demanding his release or the death of whoever had been kidnapped? Isn’t this more likely?”

I’m no expert on International Relations or Al Qaida, so as I say in my latest blogpost “A Jewish Response to the Death of a Mass Murderer” (http://www.rabbineil.com), I don’t know if Al Qaida is a Hydra that will get stronger once you cut off its head or if the ideology will die with the man (that’s not saying terrorism will end, just that Al Qaida might be significantly weakened). I would be particularly interested to read the opinion of anyone on this forum if they are an expert in the subject, though. Reprisals or not I can’t comment on because I, like probably everyone else here, know essentially nothing of Al Qaida other than what I learn from the news or online (even worse!).

I’d also like to respond to some of the comments about the American reaction. I watched Obama’s press conference and not once did I see him practically jumping for joy as has been suggested. Any hint of a smile would have been unforgivable morally and diplomatically. We must have been watching different press conferences.

I also think it’s worth noting that the overwhelming majority of Americans in the US and worldwide did not act the way that was portrayed on TV. I would like to urge people to please be careful about the language they use after having witnessed two groups of people celebrating - not all Americans are the same. If there is any opportunism from this entire thing, it is not the timing of this event but only Obama’s newly-planned visit to Ground Zero this week. That’s political opportunism, the rest was just the appropriately opportunistic assassination of someone who masterminded the first external terrorist attacks on American soil, whom the Americans had finally tracked down and whom they wanted dead and gone as quickly as possible. Whether or not I agree with it, I don’t blame them and completely believe that they did it.

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Posted: 03 May 2011 08:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Sorry, literally just found this link from Reuters which I think is particularly interesting.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110503/wl_nm/us_binladen_europe_justice

For me, a much more interesting question is not “was bin Laden killed?” but “was it right to kill bin Laden?”

Neil

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Posted: 03 May 2011 09:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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SmilerDad - 03 May 2011 08:31 PM

I’d also like to respond to some of the comments about the American reaction. I watched Obama’s press conference and not once did I see him practically jumping for joy as has been suggested. Any hint of a smile would have been unforgivable morally and diplomatically. We must have been watching different press conferences.

I also think it’s worth noting that the overwhelming majority of Americans in the US and worldwide did not act the way that was portrayed on TV. I would like to urge people to please be careful about the language they use after having witnessed two groups of people celebrating - not all Americans are the same. If there is any opportunism from this entire thing, it is not the timing of this event but only Obama’s newly-planned visit to Ground Zero this week. That’s political opportunism, the rest was just the appropriately opportunistic assassination of someone who masterminded the first external terrorist attacks on American soil, whom the Americans had finally tracked down and whom they wanted dead and gone as quickly as possible. Whether or not I agree with it, I don’t blame them and completely believe that they did it.

Hi Smilerdad,
I can’t speak for everyone but I think the reaction was in reference to the Americans that the Tv choose to broadcast outside of the whitehouse not Obama himself…I could be wrong though smile

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Posted: 03 May 2011 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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And I’m still interested to know the legal basis for this under international law. Can any state in the world just go round shooting people dead (even if they are criminals) with no due process? The international criminal court is set up for trials of people who commit terrible acts, genocide, crimes against humanity etc etc. Perhaps they should save themselves the bother and just go kill people instead?

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Posted: 03 May 2011 10:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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sorry smilerdad, just read your link. Very interesting thanks grin

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Posted: 04 May 2011 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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SmilerDad - 03 May 2011 08:42 PM

For me, a much more interesting question is not “was bin Laden killed?” but “was it right to kill bin Laden?”

Neil

Yes, that’s what’s concerning me too.

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Posted: 04 May 2011 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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The most conspiritorial bit of this whole thing for me is the statement that he was shot dead “while resisting arrest”. Was he genuinly resisting arrest to the point that the only option left was to shoot him dead, or was that the easiest option for all concerned? I don’t believe that any of the the rest of it was a conspiricy, but I do think that the outcome in the minds of most, if not all of the people taking part in this operation was that they would be dealing with a dead body - I don’t buy that they tried very hard to keep him alive; it would cause far too many logistical issues. *If* that is the case, then I think we should be exploring the right of one country to deliberately assasinate a citizen of another country, but that’s the biggest issue for me.

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Posted: 04 May 2011 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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what about the dumping him in the sea bit?  Now that seems dodgy.  Before the world at large had identified him properly. 

When I said about Obama jumping for joy or whatever, I just meant his general rocking on his toes with anticipation before his speech bit which seemed kinda distasteful (to me).

Smilerdad - going to check out your links now smile

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Posted: 04 May 2011 11:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Burial at sea was a stoke of (albeit distasteful) genius! What the world really didn’t need was a martyr’s grave on the scale that BinLaden’s would have been. Of all the parts of the entire operation, burial at sea was the single most sensible part. It prevents kidnap attempts on the body, veneration of body parts (think Christian relics), a physical rallying point for extemists etc, etc. It was truely brilliant (in a kind of Bond villian way).

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