Ok, I can see why dresses could be easier. Also I just realised that DS had much longer than average hair at 2 because we just hadnt cut it so I was pretty much talking rubbish! Its an interesting topic & I like my (not very well thought through) thoughts to be challenged!
I’ve been thnking about this quite a bit, and while i admire their stance against gender sterotype, I do actually find the execution of that stance rather ridiculous and daft. I can’t see for one moment what difference this will make. And it makes me sad that in effect they have made the child an “issue”. The Canadian article talked of the neighbour trying to guess what sex the child is etc, so when this child receives attention it’s purely because people are trying to figure out the sex of the child. And gawd that makes me really sad for the child. When this child is held by anyone not knowing it’s sex, the child will be scrutinised and the primary thought in that person’s head, so it seems, will be the sex of the child, and not the staring in wonder into the eyes of a new life, enjoying the wonderful babysmell and precious cuddles.
I doubt keeping the child’s sex will make much of difference really, this isn’t something that is sustainable long term, in fact I can only see it being possible for a few years, and really will that make any difference… for me I have found the gender issues more poignant as Rye has got older.
When he was a baby, he did get a lot of attention, I remember the first year I went to the Fairy Festival in Canterbury, I was stopped constantly to say how lovely he was, and ok yes, in part that was because I also had him on my back in a mei tai. But I wore him subsequent years, but because he was older, and not so “baby cute” it was almost like he was invisible. The little girls, dressed like fairies etc however were beamed at, commented how pretty they looked etc.
Similarly when Rye was younger the longer hair and colourful clothes were not as commented upon - ok he was often mistaken for a girl - but again, I do believe that is laziness, because Rye has never looked like a girl, even with long hair. I actually had quite a few comments abo ut how lovely his hair was, and what lovely clothes he had on, seems while he was still a toddler it was still acceptable to dress him in colourful clothes and for his hair to be longer than “normal” for a boy. (rolling my eyes at that one!)
Last year, coming back from the GP meet, I corrected a fella in the Ashford trainstation cafe, when he kept referring to Rye has “she” and “her” and his response was that I shouldn’t dress Rye in girl’s clothes then! He was wearing red jogging bottoms for pity sake. I was a bit gobsmacked so I didn’t retort back as I would have liked to, thinking on it now.
My point though, is I find the sterotyping is more noticeable now. Even my own brother comments when Rye’s hair is long, saying he’s not a “proper” boy and he looks “sissy” with long hair… and the number of people who told me that Rye looked like a “proper” little boy when I did chop his hair off - incidently only because he kept getting tangles from a very prolonged bout of snottiness and he asked me to cut it off becuase he didnt’ like me brushing his hair.
So, long term I really don’t see what difference hiding the sex of the child will actually make to the child.
I would put a boy in a dress while they are learning to toilet themselves.
Angie
Mine just wear t-shirts, well at home, and/or legwarmers if cold
If out and about, they’re usually climbing and always end up tripping over skirts/dresses, getting scraped knees, friction burns going down the slide etc, so they wear trousers or shorts.
I’ve been thnking about this quite a bit, and while i admire their stance against gender sterotype, I do actually find the execution of that stance rather ridiculous and daft. I can’t see for one moment what difference this will make. And it makes me sad that in effect they have made the child an “issue”. The Canadian article talked of the neighbour trying to guess what sex the child is etc, so when this child receives attention it’s purely because people are trying to figure out the sex of the child. And gawd that makes me really sad for the child. When this child is held by anyone not knowing it’s sex, the child will be scrutinised and the primary thought in that person’s head, so it seems, will be the sex of the child, and not the staring in wonder into the eyes of a new life, enjoying the wonderful babysmell and precious cuddles.
I doubt keeping the child’s sex will make much of difference really, this isn’t something that is sustainable long term, in fact I can only see it being possible for a few years, and really will that make any difference… for me I have found the gender issues more poignant as Rye has got older.
When he was a baby, he did get a lot of attention, I remember the first year I went to the Fairy Festival in Canterbury, I was stopped constantly to say how lovely he was, and ok yes, in part that was because I also had him on my back in a mei tai. But I wore him subsequent years, but because he was older, and not so “baby cute” it was almost like he was invisible. The little girls, dressed like fairies etc however were beamed at, commented how pretty they looked etc.
Similarly when Rye was younger the longer hair and colourful clothes were not as commented upon - ok he was often mistaken for a girl - but again, I do believe that is laziness, because Rye has never looked like a girl, even with long hair. I actually had quite a few comments abo ut how lovely his hair was, and what lovely clothes he had on, seems while he was still a toddler it was still acceptable to dress him in colourful clothes and for his hair to be longer than “normal” for a boy. (rolling my eyes at that one!)
Last year, coming back from the GP meet, I corrected a fella in the Ashford trainstation cafe, when he kept referring to Rye has “she” and “her” and his response was that I shouldn’t dress Rye in girl’s clothes then! He was wearing red jogging bottoms for pity sake. I was a bit gobsmacked so I didn’t retort back as I would have liked to, thinking on it now.
My point though, is I find the sterotyping is more noticeable now. Even my own brother comments when Rye’s hair is long, saying he’s not a “proper” boy and he looks “sissy” with long hair… and the number of people who told me that Rye looked like a “proper” little boy when I did chop his hair off - incidently only because he kept getting tangles from a very prolonged bout of snottiness and he asked me to cut it off becuase he didnt’ like me brushing his hair.
So, long term I really don’t see what difference hiding the sex of the child will actually make to the child.
Jx
Totally agree! I feel very sorry for this child, as long as the parents attempt to keep this *secret* the child will not be valued for what he/she truly is, the main focus will be trying to establish what sex the child is.
ETA: What is the problem if people ask if the baby is a boy girl? Parents often like their babies (esp first ones!) to receive compliments, and strangers often say “he/she is lovely”. I really don’t see what the issue is here?
I’ve been thnking about this quite a bit, and while i admire their stance against gender sterotype, I do actually find the execution of that stance rather ridiculous and daft. I can’t see for one moment what difference this will make. And it makes me sad that in effect they have made the child an “issue”. The Canadian article talked of the neighbour trying to guess what sex the child is etc, so when this child receives attention it’s purely because people are trying to figure out the sex of the child. And gawd that makes me really sad for the child. When this child is held by anyone not knowing it’s sex, the child will be scrutinised and the primary thought in that person’s head, so it seems, will be the sex of the child, and not the staring in wonder into the eyes of a new life, enjoying the wonderful babysmell and precious cuddles.
I doubt keeping the child’s sex will make much of difference really, this isn’t something that is sustainable long term, in fact I can only see it being possible for a few years, and really will that make any difference… for me I have found the gender issues more poignant as Rye has got older.
When he was a baby, he did get a lot of attention, I remember the first year I went to the Fairy Festival in Canterbury, I was stopped constantly to say how lovely he was, and ok yes, in part that was because I also had him on my back in a mei tai. But I wore him subsequent years, but because he was older, and not so “baby cute” it was almost like he was invisible. The little girls, dressed like fairies etc however were beamed at, commented how pretty they looked etc.
Similarly when Rye was younger the longer hair and colourful clothes were not as commented upon - ok he was often mistaken for a girl - but again, I do believe that is laziness, because Rye has never looked like a girl, even with long hair. I actually had quite a few comments abo ut how lovely his hair was, and what lovely clothes he had on, seems while he was still a toddler it was still acceptable to dress him in colourful clothes and for his hair to be longer than “normal” for a boy. (rolling my eyes at that one!)
Last year, coming back from the GP meet, I corrected a fella in the Ashford trainstation cafe, when he kept referring to Rye has “she” and “her” and his response was that I shouldn’t dress Rye in girl’s clothes then! He was wearing red jogging bottoms for pity sake. I was a bit gobsmacked so I didn’t retort back as I would have liked to, thinking on it now.
My point though, is I find the sterotyping is more noticeable now. Even my own brother comments when Rye’s hair is long, saying he’s not a “proper” boy and he looks “sissy” with long hair… and the number of people who told me that Rye looked like a “proper” little boy when I did chop his hair off - incidently only because he kept getting tangles from a very prolonged bout of snottiness and he asked me to cut it off becuase he didnt’ like me brushing his hair.
So, long term I really don’t see what difference hiding the sex of the child will actually make to the child.
Jx
Totally agree! I feel very sorry for this child, as long as the parents attempt to keep this *secret* the child will not be valued for what he/she truly is, the main focus will be trying to establish what sex the child is.
ETA: What is the problem if people ask if the baby is a boy girl? Parents often like their babies (esp first ones!) to receive compliments, and strangers often say “he/she is lovely”. I really don’t see what the issue is here?
I didn’t know this post was still doing the rounds, totally agree with above. I don’t understand why anyone has an issue with not saying it’s a boy or a girl, it’s not about whether they have a right to know or not, they are just asking a simple enough question.
I think they have made an issue when there needn’t be one as Frowstypink said above.
I guess the problem is that we simply don’t know whether a child is a boy or a girl until they are old enough to tell us - all we know is what their exterior genitalia *suggest* they might be. Gender is made up of far more than our sex organs, and simply relying on those external factors means we may be labelling transgender children as the “wrong” sex for several years before they are able to tell us different. That’s quite a pressure on them, isn’t it?
But how will hiding the sex of a child change how the child is perceived? Its not ,the gender the child is believed to be that’s the problem, it’s society’s hinkiness regarding transgender issues. Nor can I see how it will relieve any pressure that transgender children will/may feel. Regardless, if a child who outwardly looks like a boy, has male genitalia etc but he feels he is a girl, and behaves as such; sadly much of society will treat such a child differently.
Eventually, the child will be put in a circumstance where the genitalia will become evident; PE in school, springs to mind; or heck even the game that young kids play of show me yours, and I’ll show you mine, doctors and nurses, mums and dads etc. Unless the child has had corrective surgery, at some point it will become known and the child will experience negative reactions. Or does the parent counsel the child not to be involved in these sort of games, keep them out of PE or any other circumstances in whcih the sex of the child could be seen? That’s still puts pressure on the child, doesn’t it?
And I think, for most children, what’s between their legs DOES determine their gender, does it not? Sure there’s a lot of expectations and gender, well training I guess, from society that determines how we behave within our society as a boy or a girl; what’s between their legs usually means certain hormones are released at certain times in different concentrations so that the male figure is developed or the female, depending on the child’s sex…so I’m not sure we can just dismiss sex as being irrevelant.
I was explaining to DD1 why I choose to be a Ms and not a Miss or Mrs the other day. In lots of ways an entirely different subject, but equally for me why I choose Ms is because society chooses to place me in a box based on my marital status. Giving people the option to judge me or make assumptions about me by indicating my marital status in my name where men don’t have to.
I think the same applies when we bring up children in either the boy box or the girl box is that they become unable to explore other aspects of themselves because those kinds of play are associated with a certain gender. It is deadly apparent from a very young age that football is primarily for boys. The nursery my children go to won’t allow boys to wear dresses. They are disallowed from entering certain realms because it is frowned upon.
What this family are trying to do is remove the frowns. A boy wearing a dress. Tut tut. A child wearing a dress - how lovely I don’t really see long term how hiding the sex of the child will change things for this child, but I think it is a challenge to all us parents to move away from the boy/ girl boxes. In moving away from pink for girls or blue for boys and choosing clothes that are more gender neutral which I know many of us do. I think we are striving for our children to be children and enjoy their childhood away from the politics of what is and isn’t acceptable in society for men and women to do. I also remember reading research that if you choose a gender neutral name like Sam, your daughter will have an increased chance of getting job interviews. And certainly I still feel like the fight for equality for women in many arenas including the workplace is a very real one.
In the same way as I was explaining to DD1 that I choose to be a Ms as a political decision because I believe things should be fair and equal between men and women and that we shouldn’t be judged on different terms. She said she wanted to be a police woman so she could change the rules, I suggested prime minister. But I also suggested that if all women chose to be a Ms we would all be changing the rules together .....
I think the same applies when we bring up children in either the boy box or the girl box is that they become unable to explore other aspects of themselves because those kinds of play are associated with a certain gender. It is deadly apparent from a very young age that football is primarily for boys. The nursery my children go to won’t allow boys to wear dresses. They are disallowed from entering certain realms because it is frowned upon.
[i]Whilst many parents do bring children up in a boy/girl box it is very possible to bring them up *neutrally* without making a big issue of their sex. Gender neutral names, clothing, not complying to stereo typical gender *norms* etc. There’s no need to keep reiterating “you are a boy/girl” so you can’t do such and such.
What this family are trying to do is remove the frowns. A boy wearing a dress. Tut tut. A child wearing a dress - how lovely I don’t really see long term how hiding the sex of the child will change things for this child, but I think it is a challenge to all us parents to move away from the boy/ girl boxes. In moving away from pink for girls or blue for boys and choosing clothes that are more gender neutral which I know many of us do. I think we are striving for our children to be children and enjoy their childhood away from the politics of what is and isn’t acceptable in society for men and women to do.
At what cost though? They have a boy who wears dresses/nailpolish who feels uncomfortable enough to not want to go to school (bearing in mind this is newspaper article, so perhaps sexed up) and doesn’t seem comfortable with his preferences.
In the same way as I was explaining to DD1 that I choose to be a Ms as a political decision because I believe things should be fair and equal between men and women and that we shouldn’t be judged on different terms. She said she wanted to be a police woman so she could change the rules, I suggested prime minister. But I also suggested that if all women chose to be a Ms we would all be changing the rules together .....
As an adult you have made an informed decision (fair play to you, I’m thinking of doing it myself but this childs parents have done this on his/her behalf. As everyone has previously said, how long can the secret last? Since birth his sex has been on record. If they don’t want strangers asking then okay, but why hide it from family? If they already have a child who defies traditional gender *norms* anyway, surely they are fairly openminded to the fact that this child will find his/her own way too?Also, is it fair to assume that all children have transgender issues?
I think everybody’s assumption that to ‘know’ a child you have to know whether they are a boy or a girl, is a really big assumption. If someone did this in my family, I don’t think I would become obsessed with finding out or knowing. I think that is our obsession in society but I really don’t see it as necessary to knowing a person and what is in their heart and soul. So I say why ‘not’ hide it from family? Who cares, why do we all care so much?
Everyday parents make decisions on their childrens behalf, we do so for the best, to allow them to grow up healthy and happy. What food we put into their bodies what religion or festivals we bring them up to experience, the schools we send them to. I see this as just one more decision they have made, although actually it is a non-decision. Like if I had a religion but chose to bring my child up without religion (a non decision) giving them all the information they would need to make the decision themselves about which, or a mixture, or no religion they choose.
so I was pretty much talking rubbish! Its an interesting topic & I like my (not very well thought through) thoughts to be challenged! 
