Anyone who has been through Y2 and seen how SATS have been done, would love to hear your stories and anyone going through it right now, how much emphasis your school is putting on them?
Just because our school, not long out of special measures, therefore very results focussed have offered (in a way that makes it sound essential) an extra hours tuition which they have found funding for, for the whole of Year 2, one afternoon a week for the rest of this term where they will be groups of eight children (of their capability) rather than with 30 children of mixed capability. Which on the one hand makes it sound good because which parent wouldn’t want their child to be in a class of eight of similar abilities. It sounds like the ideal situation, wouldn’t that be the perfect education system? So in a way I am tempted.
BUT I know that she is already doing very well, and apparently at the level that you would expect for the end of Y2 already, so she is there, no need to worry. And I am not a pushy parent and do not believe in pushing or pressuring 7 year olds, but also know that she loves a challenge. I also think that 9 till 3.30, five days a week is plenty for a 7 year old and she should get time to PLAY, so don’t agree with increasing her hours. And I have a feeling that they will be teaching with a focus on results, rather than teaching things they love doing. That it is essentially driven by an education system which is focussed on results rather than learning and driven by teachers with something to prove, so I am concerned about content of what they are doing this year and how it’s importance is communicated. I am not articulating it very well I realise, and don’t know whether to even bother articulating it to the teacher or just to say “Thanks, but no thanks” or to try and find a middle road where she can go if she feels like it, or that weeks subject is of interest, which doesn’t seem to be how they are operating it, but I wonder if they would if I asked, and I also wonder if they feel it is that important right now whether to ask for it to be recorded and that then she can take TOIL, which I know would be a cheeky ask, but in this day and age where they charge you £100 for a day off I think it would seem sensible. I certainly wouldn’t go into work for an extra hour a week without either being paid or getting TOIL.
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or experiences, I have a meeting with the teacher at 8.30 in the morning so need to pull together my thoughts .....
I suppose it all comes down to whether she would enjoy it or not. My experience of year 2 SATS has been a very low key affair, which it initially sounds as if this will not be. The other issue I have had with year 2 SATS is with an above average child finding it incredibly boring, as all they are doing is focussing on getting through the year with the highest scores possible, and if they are already at level 3 then not being pushed further. If she is already doing well, I would shift focus onto other things.
We have also had experience of Key stage 3 sats where they do start to pile the pressure on. I have never forced it, saying it is more a test for the school than the child. I think if they are making an issue of it, this will get portrayed to the child in some way or another, and at the age of 7 there are far more important things to be focussing on than getting your school a good mark!!
I personally would not go for this idea. If the school cannot teach what they are supposed to be teaching in the time that is already allocated to them (an hour’s extra tuition is not going to make that much difference and may I suggest an hour spent with you at home discussing or reading would be more beneficial). Not many parents are aware that in fact Sats at the end of Year Two is NOT obligatory. We disagreed with it at the beginning of our year - and ran into an open door so far with our head and teacher who both said that the requirements could be fulfilled with benchmarking instead. So our Babes is not doing the test. You are quite welcome to quote me on this - and refer to our example if you need to.
Best
w.w.
I have no idea why sats are ness art as a home educator I completely disagree with them
but I would give my child the opportunity. as I kid I would have participated in this. but I also believe a child can learn a lot more in 1 hour of 1-8. than they can in a whole day of usual lessons.
I would let my child choose but make sure it was explained that that there was no pressure.
My view is that Sat’s are for the school, not the children. It is used to measure whether the school is doing its job - how much children have learnt between Sat’s at Yr2 and Yr6. So unless your child really wants to go, I would think that free play would be far more suitable for any child (even if they weren’t doing very well at school!) than more lessons, at 7 yrs old. With my 2, I have always told them, I expect you to do your best every day, including at Sat’s, but they’re not important for you. Do your best, but don’t worry about it.
I personally wouldn’t like this idea at all. My dd is very academic and loves learning/homework etc although I still don’t think she’d choose to do an extra hour of schooling (unless it was as sports club or similar). My ds is more a hands on type of boy and would be horrified at the thought - and I’d never expect him to do it - it’s hard enough to encourage him to do a bit of homework never mind an hour more of school each week!
As for SATS - I don’t like them and as others have said they are nothing to do with the child (although they do use them to put the child into their ability groups but they would also use what they know about the child too so not the SAT results alone) but it is more to do with how the teachers are teaching.
I think if they are asking to add an extra hour to their schooling then they don’t have faith in the Yr 2 teachers to teach in the appropriate time scale. I think SAT results and Ofsted are just an “image” the schools have without it really meaning anything at all. Going totally off topic here - but I would choose a school more for the pastoral care/extra curricular activities/children’s happiness and well being rather than the SATS results. In fact, high SATS results (in my opinion) often mean less “child centred” teaching and more results focussed teaching which in my view is totally wrong.
As Jennifer said, maybe let the child choose but no pressure at all as it will then make a big deal out of something that really isn’t!
My DS will be doing the KS1 Sats this year. The school say they keep it all low key and see them as something that has to be done and is just part of the assessments they do all the time anyway. I am not overly concerned and DS is oblivious to it all. Whether he does well or not is of no importance as far as I can see- the teachers know him well and know his abilities/strengths/weaknesses, it is just a Gov hoop to be jumped through. It is annoying if school are trying to train children to pass the test, it is in the school interest and not the children’s. I see no purpose in ‘coaching’ him in the skills needed to pass the test (spelling, maths, comprehension etc) as he is doing all he needs in normal school and life at home.
Wonderwoman- I would be interested to see a reference (Gov website?) about them not being obligatory as I found the opposite! Thank you.
As an ex primary teacher and private SAT tutor, and mother of a year 2 child, don’t worry about them. The children do not know what is going on and just think its a normal day at school apart from they have a booklet of questions to do. Teachers hate them but you have to adhere to the read tape that dictates, we already have a good idea what levels they are likely to achieve and what they are capable of and this is the main thing, the SATS are a necessary evil so a box can be ticked. That said when moderating papers one year it highlighted to one school they had somehow completely missed the teaching of one unit in numeracy and the SATS highlighted this, so in this instance it was a godsend for the school. Swings and roundabouts, all good teachers will have taught the class what they need and the kids are clueless otwhat is going on. I would just leave hte kids to remain unaware, and the point of the SAT testing is if htere are any areas that need work, this will help diagnose that. IF any issues raised, only then work with the teacher to address this and they will advise if a tutor is needed, or what you can do. If you want ot have a look at some papers just to put your mind at ease, this is a good site http://www.st-josephs-pickering.n-yorks.sch.uk/ks2_mathematics_sats_past_papers.htm
If I can answer anything, just give me a shout
Lx
I disagree that kids don’t know what’s going on with SATs. I volunteered in a year two class for about 5 years, and there was definitely an understanding that some kind of testing was going on. A number of the “high achievers” became very “nervy” and panicked about the tests, however much they were told it was testing the school not the child. I mostly worked with the kids who were struggling, and they really suffered during SATs. It may just be a book of questions, but the kids who are used to having support are suddenly cut adrift and have to cope alone with reading and answering the questions. They often just don’t understand why the people who normally help them are suddenly not prepared to, and I saw lots of tears and anger from kids who just couldn’t grasp why their support had suddenly disappeared.
I didn’t respond earlier as my dd is in Yr1 so no personal experience here yet, next year it will be though.
But having read the last few posts I felt I wanted to respond about it as I think it obviously depends on the school as to whether the children “know” they are being tested. Having been around when the year 2 last year went through SATS and knowing many parents of those children, I can honestly say that for them they didn’t know that the time they spent with their teacher that they were being assessed. There was no big flashing light above them, they were fully supported through it and the teachers just included the assessments as part of their day to day activities and time with the children. No stress, no pressure. I expect the same when dd does them next year.
Having seen some examples, it’s the sort of thing/skills they would have learnt along the way in the year (and yr1) anyway (or even at home), and a good teacher would ensure all children have the support and understanding.
On the subject of taking part in extra time/coaching - I’d deem it unnecessary personally, maybe because I know it would be something my dd would take in her stride anyway, but if dd wanted to go along I would give her the choice. It sounds like your dd is exceeding the expected level so probably not necessary, but maybe ask her if she wants to take part - no pressure either way.
I disagree that kids don’t know what’s going on with SATs. I volunteered in a year two class for about 5 years, and there was definitely an understanding that some kind of testing was going on. A number of the “high achievers” became very “nervy” and panicked about the tests, however much they were told it was testing the school not the child. I mostly worked with the kids who were struggling, and they really suffered during SATs. It may just be a book of questions, but the kids who are used to having support are suddenly cut adrift and have to cope alone with reading and answering the questions. They often just don’t understand why the people who normally help them are suddenly not prepared to, and I saw lots of tears and anger from kids who just couldn’t grasp why their support had suddenly disappeared.
Angie
I agree with this. I used to be a TA in a Year 3 class and whilst their SATs weren’t externally marked, they still had to sit them and the children knew what was going on as they used to practice so much before they took them. I also supported the ‘less able’ children and it was awful during the SATs when I had to tell them that I couldn’t help them. For example, in the reading tests I couldn’t help them with the words. I also sat with Year 6 children when they were taking their SATs. Children that had difficulties were allowed to have a TA with them for support, but it was awful as I could read questions to them, but I couldn’t tell them what the questions meant. Sometimes a child would say “what does it mean?” and I couldn’t tell them :-( I know that schools vary with their approach to SATs, but my experience was the same as Angie’s. All the children I worked with knew that they were being tested.
Just a thought, apologies now and opening up a can of worms I know, but how much of the issue here is the good teaching practice and or parent fears.
I can only go on personal first hand experience in the settings I worked in, classes I taught and students I tutored and as a mum of a year 2 child now.
In the cases where student anxiety was encountered, much of this was to do with lack of preparation/warning or worries passed on. For example, totally agree, a child will be nervy and pick up on the sudden use of a workbook and no help - HOWEVER, if they have been taught that this is part of the learning and not a sudden move away from normal day in the class, this is less stressful and nothing out of the norm. I would question had the class encountered this approach prior to the SAT testing days? Anything new is scary, so anyone would be nervy surely whether it was a SAT test or not? I was always taught part of effective teaching in to plan ahead, look at all the possibilities, welfare and so on and how as a teacher can we make it fun, motivating and undaunting. For example, my mixed 1/2 class would have a weekely ‘quiz’ time, they would have a sheet of questions, where required the TA would read the questions to those who needed support, but no help was given just as in SATs. When it came to year 5/6 and 11+ and SATs, the same applied, and they loved it as they wanted to do well and outdo each other by this age!!! This was not to inform my records alone, but helped me to identify areas where children needed more support so I could inform planing or set individual homework or sessions, also this appraoch prepared them early on that this was a normal thing to happen and nothing to be freaked out by. They also enjoyed marking each others work and it was a fun time.
I know I am going to upset people so sorry in advance, but no doubt we can all think of someone at the school gate (sorry again for stereotyping) but how many children who are nervy COULD POSSIBLY be like this due to pressure placed on them by the parents/carers. Not selfish or at fault, but because they care, and want them to do well as we all do for our children. The problem, not to do with understanding or ability, but pressure to perform and please, and I stress only in a few cases, but tutoring and teaching, I have often heard, if you get such and such level you can have an xbox etc etc. A child in year 2 does not understand the level indicators they are reduced to the premise equating this to if I get all the questions right I am going to get the xbox, and made them happy, if I dont I do not get the present and I have failed.
Just a few thoughts as this is an issue very close to my heart as a teacher, tutor and mum.
L xx
Just a few thoughts as this is an issue very close to my heart as a teacher, tutor and mum.
L xx
I personally think you make some very sound comments on this subject.
You sound like a very good switched on teacher too, the sort I expect to meet and appreciate x
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It really helped and then a conversation with DH clarified further. Obviously one of the first people I’d spoken to was DD1 and she wasn’t that keen to go when I spoke to her, so perhaps I should have just gone with her instinct, but I felt I needed to explore with the teachers the way this was being communicated to the children. They assured me that they are keeping it very low key and that the children are just told that it is so the teachers can find out what they know so they can teach them what they don’t know. Although I do think that an hour’s extra class after school isn’t really keeping it low key, so they are saying one thing but in their actions they are communicating something else. They have reassured me that it is just extra and that they will still be doing exactly the same in class so by not attending she won’t be missing out. In fact although the letter made it sound like it was compulsory, the class teacher said it didn’t matter whether she came or not. Angie, exactly what I’m concerned about is that DD1 likes to meet peoples expectations (broadly ) and therefore pushes herself to achieve and do well and likes to get things perfect and when she can’t she becomes frustrated, grumpy and challenging, not so much nervy, actually angry. But I guess it get’s to everyone in different ways. This kind of emotional impact that is only visible at home is what I am concerned about.
And Elderflowery, I really appreciate your reply. It is so helpful to get the POV of teachers, when I get the chance to meet with my friends who are teachers it really helps. And I am sure there are parents who as you say put pressure on their children and offer rewards of xbox (OMG-really!). But I am certainly not one of them. Not suggesting that you were suggesting that I was. I don’t do rewards or punishment, in fact what I find frustrating about the school system, educational establishment is that it does use rewards (stickers, goldentime) so I kind of feel that the parents who think that rewarding their children for good performance are actually only products of an education system that perpetuates this method of getting our children to do as we want, and as parents that they observe these methodologies used in schools all the time and that schools need to take some responsibility for leading by example in terms of how to encourage children to love learning for the sheer love of it instead of just because they have to (homework), because they will get a reward (stickers and golden time), or because they’ll get punished (detention or seeing the headmaster). Oops I did get upset - sorry - and it isn’t that I am upset with teachers, it is that I am upset with the educational framework within which they have to work.
Anyway although the teachers have told me it is low key and not compulsory, it seems all the other parents have unquestioningly put their children into the extra class (whether they have done that unquestioningly or just because it is an hours extra free childcare who knows) but when I picked DD1 up yesterday and all her classmates stayed behind she stamped her feet and got cross with me for making that decision (even though I had asked her opinion). So it look like peer pressure might win out in the long run, and I can’t get away from that one can I? Perhaps that is why it is just much easier to ‘do as they say’ than to question (speaking more broadly about the powers that be!)
Evening,
Since reading your post it keeps nagging at the back of my mind and keep thinking about it, and the more I think about it, a school giving extra classes after school? And for year 2? Really? Nothing is even offered for 11+ prep let alone for SATs and year 2!
A friend whom is an ex LEA advisor and current OfSted inspector said I must have read it wrong on here , so showed them the thread on here, he was shocked. No school would offer extra hours for free, usually a good local tutor is tactfully suggested at parents evening He said it could be more to do with a failing teacher/rapid teacher turnover so gaps have been idenitfied in learning over the school journey to date or the school needing to raise its standards and the issue here is not the children but the need for league table rectification - teach them the areas that are likely to come up and the techniques so any possible failing areas are not highlighted. He pointed out that this is rather naughty for whatever reason it is being done, but stressed it is nothing for you to worry, do not worry or panic, ultimately the learning is being put first and from what you have written the children are all up for extra learning which is wonderful in itself as that is half hte battle! Only when children are stressed or upset by this, or it becomes clear there is a failing teacher then it becomes an issue.
He repeated, think about it logically, why is a school willing to give extra learning hours for free, espcially in the current climate? This is not common practice and with current teaching union directives, lack of funding and paperwork - this is not a normal measure most teachers would offer - in fact we seem to struggle to get teachers to run half hour clubs let alone extra teaching after school! ha! Is it the class teacher offering the sessions I wonder, or maybe someone different ?
For whatever reason the bottom line here is the children are happy, they are learning so it is all beneficial to them regardless of why the sessions are being given and thats the main thing. I would just keep an eye on how often extra hours are being offered and ensure there is no further underlying reason and that it merely a very supportive school doing all they can to help the children do well. I will DM you my reasoning behind the ensuring no underlying reasons!
xx
I think its because the school in question is not long out of special measures elderflowery??
Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of things. From my experience KS1 SATs are pretty low key, no real pressure. Sure it depends on school, but just going from what Ive seen. KS2 SATs are completely different kettle of fish though!!! Having taught years 3-6, I can tell you that year after year, results in KS1 SATs were not worth the paper they were written on! I always found them far too generous and not a good guide to the childrens ability. I can tell you, it made year 3 parents evening v tricky!
